Acs with gemstones

[dannaj]

I recently purchased some ACS from your site, but have yet to experiment with it.  Although I will do several test/simple pieces first, I would eventually like to include faceted gemstones before firing (the main appeal of the product, frankly). I have extensively searched the ACS site and perused several books . . . what is the best method for ensuring the stability of the stones once a piece is complete?  

I know teh outer edges should be covered so that shirnkage does not cause the stones to pop out, but how much coverage does that entail?  I have some 2mm round sapphires, as well as a 2x4mm marquise ruby that were purchased with this intention (both have a Mohs hardness of 9, so it seems they should work)  

Any thoughts on this?  The malleability and hands-on approach to ACS is very apealing to me, as I have difficulties with soldering.  

Thank you '>

[Metalman]

Dannaj,
I have revised a work tip from 2003 and that text is below. As to mounting the stones - I have had great fortune firing them straight into the clay.  I design ahead of time [at least a little bit] so that I know where a stone will be located. Depending on the size of the stones, I try to put a small hole down the center of the location. This helps with the pushing out of the stones [due to the 8 to 10 % shrinkage] as well as potentially adding a bit of light to the back of the stone.  I usually press the stones down evenly into moist clay until there is about a 1mm relief of clay around the edge. For smaller stones it could be less but should be at least .5mm You mentioned 2mm size stones. I would consider those small and so if it was troublesome to put a hole behind them, I would not worry about it. Make sure the stones are cleaned of any metal clay on their surface - it will fire on. I clean before firing using solvent alcohol. A second way to do this direct mount is to build your piece and let it dry. When it is dry, drill a shallow hole a shade larger then your stones and not too deep. Then place the stones in to the holes and using the syringe clay pipe a small ring of clay above the stones. You can then blend and detail the piping into the rest of the piece. Clean up and fire.
Another way to work is to 'set' the stones with a crown setting or your own prongs.  You can buy settings, the fine silver ones work best in the Art Clay but you could experiment with others.  You can also set wire into the Art Clay  and then cut the prong setting into it. This is rather detailed and demanding work but - gives good results. You can use silver or white gold wire for prongs. You may want to look at some jewelry setting or metalsmithing books for tech and ideas.  I always recommend the Tim McCrieght book 'The Complete Metalsmith' [R&T cat # 62-010] as the basic book to have.
I suggest that you experiment a little to refine your methods. The cubic zirconuium stones are very inexpensive to work with.

Some guidlines for Art Clay and stones:
1]  You can fire Cubic Zirconium stones right into the clay.  Just let the piece cool slowly.  You can fire them in the kiln or by torch. The important factor is slow cooling so the stones don't crack.
'>  Note: Most of the greens are not stable.  You should probably test your stones to see if there is a color shift unless they are vouched for by the dealer.
2]  If you have other stones you want to use and are willing to give them the 'Trial by Fire'  then put a group of stones you are going to test in the kiln and fire them to 1470 for 30 minutes, let them cool slowly and see what you get.  This can cause stones to crack, change color, lose any plastic fills and burn off most dyes.  You will probably have a stone that looks different than when you started but - if you still like it, and it came through this firing, then you can build it into a piece and fire it again.
 For natural stones as opposed to man made stones, every firing is a risk but once tested, the risk will be 'somewhat lower'.  
Once you have built and fired your piece, you may have to do repairs due to the shrinkage shift of the clay[8 to 10%]. You will sometimes have to fire a second, even a third time.

[dubmblond]

Hello I have a question about the slow cooling after firing with a stone (I'm planning to us an synthetic Alexandrite) I burn whit a torch and plan to use the slow or normal 650.
Is there something special you must do to slow cooling or is it ok to let is cool down naturally?

[Metalman]

Most of the sythetic stones will stand the heat shock - just let them air cool. Some of the synthetic will color change when fired - you may want to test your stone first. If the stone was listed ny the supplier as a 'cast in place', it should work fine.
I frequently use a fiber blanket [R&T# 69-181] to cover work that I want to make sure doesn't heat shock.

Hi I'm new to metal clay.I can't wait to beging my first proyect.But I have so many questions.I am very interested in crafting rings, and other projects with stones.
1- What kind of stones can I set directly on the clay?
2- How do I add a premade bezel on the clay? Do I make the whole design first and then after the piece is allready fired I set the stone?
3- Can I set real gems?
4- I like the two tone look on jewelry. How do I add a bezel in gold? Or how do I get this look?
5- Can I use  any particular objet to add designs to the clay? Do I stamp directly to the clay or do I need to make a mold of the desire objet first?
Thank you very much in advance for anny information.   '>

[nonacr267]

Ideas about setting stones.

[Metalman]

Here are several links containing information regarding your questions

Firing FAQ list:
http://www.rings-things.com/acs/firing.html

Bezels and ACS:
http://www.rings-things.com/cgi-bin....8;t=563

Prong settings  & ACS:
http://www.rings-things.com/cgi-bin....8;t=319

Adding a bezel in gold you will have to experiment with. I can't think of any reason it would be a problem but I haven't done it myself.

You can stamp right into the clay - you can also make molds - it is all dependant on your design and production needs.
A very light rub over of olive oil will help your objects release from the clay - emphasis on light.

[nonacr267]

Thank you very much for your posting.
I'll try all these.

Hello, been through a dozen web sites to find information before embarking on what looks like a very exciting new line of jewelry making... I am trying to find somewhere that can tell me exactly what stones are okay to use when firing with ACS... also where can i buy them... I found one site that had some man made but not an extensive variety of sizes they only went up to 5mm... is that becuase you cannot fire the bigger stones?  Maybe I should set htese after firing?  THanks for your help, your site has so far been the most informative!  Kim

[Metalman]

There is a list at the back of the Jackie Truty Book 'Art Clay Silver and Gold' [R&T#62-399] but I am one to always do tests or experiments before I accept this type of information.
"Why, you say??" - well, when firing materials like stones, glass and ceramics, there are many variables. The type of kiln, how you handle things, the kiln shelf you use. So, I like to test things and find out for myself, this way I also find out accuracy on the information so I can address that here on the forum, as well as sometimes being able to do things that it has been said are not possible.
Additional notes addressing your ??'s
1] Most stones listed as 'cast in place' can be fired into ACS.
2] Larger stones should be workable but in kiln firings, not by torch - because they will cool too fast and get heat shock [causing breakage] Slow cooling in the kiln will do the trick
3] Setting after firing is a very good way to go

Link to a new FAQ thread on inclusions and stones:
http://www.rings-things.com/cgi-bin....958&st=